My epiphany

By measure76

I never imagined I would leave the Mormon church. I dedicated all of my adult life to the church. Though I was bored to tears from the meetings, I stuck with them, because I knew it was the right thing to do. I knew that God would reward me for making my best effort… even if it wasn’t as good as some people seemed to be able to do.

A few things combined to cause me to lose all belief in God.

First, I was aware of some major problems in church history. I had gone to apologetics websites that gave me ways to logically cope with the problems, but they were there. Joseph Smith had instituted polygamy, seemingly without his wife’s knowledge. He perhaps tried to bring her on board once, but it is clear that she opposed his extramarital affairs.

Brigham Young discriminated against blacks. Perhaps a man of his time, but God’s prophet should have known better.

The Book of Mormon contains contradictions. Baptism being a common practice among the nephites, but then when Jesus comes, he institutes the practice as if it wasn’t (3rd Nephi 11:21.) Other contradictions occur, but that was the one I found myself, when I was on my mission.

Secondly, I knew about problems in the Bible. The creation story is right out. It doesn’t at all agree with what we know about the world’s actual history. The biblical flood is clear fiction. Egyptian history completely ignores the exodus.

Even knowing all these problems, apologetic members and websites were able to keep me from rejecting Mormonism and Christianity all together.

Then came the next issue. I am a huge fan of science fiction, and that lead me to start reading books about science fact.

I read “evolution: The Triumph of an Idea” by Carl Zimmer. It educated me about evolution so well… I knew that there was no need for a “God” to explain the world.

Now the stage was set. I was still a believing mormon, but with that book, that learning, I was prepared for the epiphany that was about to hit me, out of nowhere.

I was busy reading some skeptic blogs that I had got myself into, and I got roped into reading an argument about God. I normally avoided the religion parts of skeptic sites in general, because I knew I wasn’t atheist. Why I read this particular argument is beyond me.

But this guy argued that there was no reason to believe in a God. I read and re-read his argument. I found I couldn’t logically refute it.

This is when my epiphany struck. I thought about all the issues I knew about. The issues above, and many others. I thought about what I knew of evolution. A thought hit me that I had never considered. Everything I knew made more sense if there was no God.

Joseph and Brigham weren’t imperfect prophets… they were just opportunists. The Bible and Book of Mormon had issues because… they were bad fiction. Evolution doesn’t require a God because… God doesn’t exist!!!!

At first I felt free. Liberated. There was no God to answer to for not going to LDS church. Only other people.

This was followed by fear of anyone finding out that I had gone atheist.

I tried for several months to ignore what I learned. To try to be a Mormon who secretly doesn’t believe. I even tried to convince myself I was wrong. I think, I still wanted to believe. But eventually I gave it up.

The problem was, I still believed a number of things that were impossible without a God of miracles. So I thought that if I investigated them, something would come out… something would prove to me that there is a God.

But every time I investigated one of my beliefs with true skepticism, it evaporated.

Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon solo, with no education? Well, his father was a teacher, making Joe more educated than most around him… major portions of the book of Mormon seem to have been lifted from the Bible (not talking just Isaiah) and other sources available to Joseph at the time… Others may have collaborated as well.

Numerous witnesses to the Gold Plates? Turns out most witnesses are from the same family, Joseph seems to have promised them they could make money from witnessing to the plates, even trying to sell the copyright to the BoM with the witnesses statement as proof. Furthermore, Martin Harris later admitted that nobody actually saw the physical plates, only saw them in their “Spiritual Eye”.

Miracle of the Seagull? Seagull fossils have been found in the Salt Lake Valley dating well before the pioneer’s arrival.

One by one, all the impossible beliefs I had were shattered by simple google searches. Wikipedia entires. For some of the toughest ones, Simply asking questions at the recovery from mormonism board at exmormon.org brought me plausible, logical responses within hours. I couldn’t find a single spiritual belief to cling to.

I had to leave the church.

It was certainly hard to come out to my family. Most of my family, including my wife, still do not accept my choice to leave the church.

But I am finding my way to live without God in my life. It’s not that different, except I got a 10% pay raise and an extra day off each week.

I appreciate the good people that are in the church. I have many friends who are still Mormon, who have reacted in differing ways to my leaving. I am even appreciative of the financial assistance the church has lent me at times, but that is tempered by the knowledge of all the tithing I’ve paid over the years.

My life is not much happier, nor much sadder, now that I’ve left. From a Mormon background, the prospect of no life after death is scary. It has made me appreciate the opportunity that life provides much more.

24 Responses to “My epiphany”

  1. Kyle Says:

    The only thing I really have to say is that I am proud of you. The biggest reason I am against the mormon church with every fiber of my being is the simple fact they have an explanation or ‘excuse’ for every single hole in their doctrine. But I’m sure every religion has similar defenses. I realized a long time ago that all religion is, is mind control – controlling the masses by fear. Fear of death, fear in general. The weak minded need “something” to believe in to give them reason for being, a reason to be kind and faithful to be rewarded in the afterlife, when all I really see that is a way to control people not to be “evil.” I believe what is considered “evil” should be considered common sense, which is taught by society (which is religion based!). People attack my thoughts with if religion didn’t exist, why would I consider Murder, Rape, Stealing etc wrong? What would teach me morals? This stuff is genetic, and can be reinforced with teaching from your parents without religion. … I just have too much to say, I could talk about this for hours.

    The other thing that I find highly interesting is the vatican or however its spelled and the original creation of the Bible, the catholic church decided what books and what teachings etc would go into the book while throwing others out, goes in with what the few decided how to control the masses, and anything that would contradict those methods of control was left out. I’d really like to know what’s stored away in secret.

  2. Me Says:

    So how did you become Mormon in the first place? What is your conversion story? Did you read and pray about the book of Mormon or were you just raised in it?

  3. Measure Says:

    Well, mormons would say anybody who leaves the church had some kind of problem with themselves… -They didn’t have a strong testimony, they were sinning, they were looking for a way out, etc.

    But, believe it or not… and my temple reccommend proves that God’s inspired servants believed me when I said these things, and I also believed me….

    I believed in Jesus, in Joseph Smith, in the LDS gospel, as much as it was possible. The same passion with which I now attack the church was once the passion with which I served in the church, and believed in the church.

    I was born in the church, really converted to the church while on my mission, and faithfully served in the church for 10 years after that.

    I knew the church was true, emotionally. I now know the church is false, empiracally. (sp?)

  4. Me Says:

    So how did you gain your testimony? You just served your mission and it magically came?

  5. measure76 Says:

    Wow. You’re serious. Well, ok….

    I gained my testimony of the book of mormon while in the MTC. At the time, I thought that I was feeling the spirit strongly while I read the BoM completely through. I even had a moment when I prayed to ask if the BoM was true, and I looked down at the page and a passage answered my question. In hindsight, I probably read the passage first, then prayed and read it again. I wanted the book to be true, so I found a way to make it so. Also, the classes at the MTC were so damned boring that I probably needed an out like the BoM to take my mind off things.

    Also in the MTC, they set us up to gain a testimony of Christ with an inspirational speech and video, and I fell for it hook line and sinker. Looking back, let’s see, they seperated me from my family and friends, from all forms of media, and then filled the empty spaces in my head with Christ. Nevertheless, due to their techniques, I had an undeniable testimony of Christ for a good decade after that experience…

    OOOH! And, I gained my testimony of Joseph Smith by repeatedly telling people that I knew he was a true prophet throughout my mission. I started to believe it myself, and mistook that for “Knowing”, or gaining a testomony of it. For that one, it turns out that compulsive liars also believe their own lies after awhile. The church merely uses that biological flaw against its members. “Testify that something is true to gain a testimony!” In other words, Lie to people, telling them you know something that you actually don’t, and eventually you’ll think that you do know it.

    The ways that the church deceived me into having a testimony are impressive, the result of a cult fine-tuning it’s techniques over more than 100 years. I am so incredibly happy that I got out of the cult, I am now trying to help more people see the deceptions.

    Thanks for asking.

  6. measure76 Says:

    Also, your IP address identifies you as coming from Olympia. Odd, as I expected Kent, but still close enough that you probably know me in real life.

    Therefore, you have some advantage over me. I hope you enjoy it.

    Edit: My IP ALSO tracks to olympia. So you Could be in Kent, or Auburn.

  7. Me Says:

    So just to get your story strait. You left on your mission without a testimony of the gospel; you think you felt the spirit while reading the BOM at the MTC. And you randomly looked at a passage in the BOM that answered your question, and that’s it. That’s was the rock of your testimony?

    I’m not saying that’s good or bad. I’m just trying to understand where your testimony was. What compelled you to be a Mormon. I had no one such experience.

    And sorry I didn’t realize you didn’t know this was your bro.

    And don’t post in my blog if you are going to argue something stupid. I said people expect God to move mountains for them. I was not talking about actual mountains. I was talking about people expecting God to do major things and give them signs, when God does minor things instead.

  8. measure76 Says:

    Yes, those three experiences started my testimony, and “Bearing” my testimony after those events served to strengthen it. But uh, that’s the church taking advantage of the biological “Liar’s Flaw” again.

    I should say that I thought I had a testimony when I left for the MTC. But I “Knew” I had one when I left the MTC for the mission field.

  9. marcus0263 Says:

    Welcome to the path of enlightenment, yep I owe growing up Mormon for putting me on the path towards Atheism. I classify myself as a Skeptic though, to say I’m an Atheist would in a sense be just another religion claiming to know for a fact. Anyway the shear amount of laughable claims in the BoM and the LDS Church …. house of cards. It’s going to be interesting to see the direction they take with the facts of DNA and not a single piece of evidence coincides with historical fact. At least the Bible used real place’s, people and events to spin it’s yarn ….

  10. measure76 Says:

    Marcus, I disagree with you on only one point.

    I believe atheism is the natural state of man, and we only consider God because that’s the culture we grew up in. All small children are fully atheistic until taught otherwise.

    You would admit that you are fully atheistic of the God Zeus, would you not?

    The belief in the Christian God is no different, it’s just that in this time in history, there are many more adherents of him than Zeus.

  11. marcus0263 Says:

    Measure -

    I wasn’t there during the “supposed” times of Christ, Zeus, Horus, etc. so I cannot say for a fact that that it’s all false. I can only say it’s very unlikely and I personally don’t believe any of them existed as Gods.

    The only way I would become an Atheist is if I knew for a fact, I won’t be that arrogant. I may not know what/who God is but I sure in the hell know what God isn’t.

  12. measure76 Says:

    I believe it is arrogant to claim that there may be a God, when there is zero evidence to support the idea.

  13. Lincoln Says:

    I believe in some form of deity. I do not believe in the absolute truth claims of Mormonism any longer. There is just too much evidence to the contrary. I used to interpret my spiritual experience through Mormon lenses, but now I look to other more trustworthy sources. A religion that prides itself on deceiving the majority of its membership cannot be trusted as a source of objective truth. I still attend church once in a while, I feel comfortable there on some levels. I applaud your decision to be true to yourself and leave, if that is what you feel is right. Welcome to flak I hope you enjoy the discourse. There are a number of atheists who post frequently there.

  14. measure76 Says:

    Yeah, I realized there is no God, but still had a testimony of the church for several months. Once i started working through my testimony with my Godless world view, I found fewer and fewer reasons to attend church.

    Now I do attend activities occasionally, but never Sunday services. They’re just too boring for me. Always were, but I used to think there was a reason to put up with it.

  15. Andre Says:

    I always have an interesting time explaining my atheism to folk, mostly because my hinge arguement comes down to: Yes, I have seen with my own eyes and even conversed with Yahweh. I’m not half-assing this either, we had a genuine discussion about scripture, the modern ramificaions of outdates social rituals and the nature of fidelity and infidelity of the spirit. But just because I experinced Him doesn’t make Him real. Seeing Him makes me human. This is the part that always fails to equate for the faithful. The biological need to believe in a higher power is clearly a manifestation of pack-animal drives that we haven’t quite evolved beyond yet. Those who when confronted with hard science disputing what they want to think is true or have even experienced as true do one of two things: Either ignore reality for the sake of their belief, or accept reality and graduate to intellegent adulthood. Or as I like to say: Belief in the literal existance of the soul is exclusive to those who do not have one.

  16. INTJ Mom Says:

    Technically, atheism is simply defined as “a lack of belief in a god or gods”. It doesn’t mean that you think you know for certain that there is no god. Are you familiar with the spectrum of theistic probability? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_Theistic_Probability

    Even Richard Dawkins doesn’t put himself at a 7. He’s said he’s a 6 leaning toward 7. However, we do often tend to find a lot of religious people rating themselves at 1. In my own personal experience I’ve found very very few people who would probably rate themselves as a 7.

    There are also different types of atheists. A list of different types is here: http://packham.n4m.org/atheist3.htm I consider myself an objectivist atheist. And that is different in some significant ways from pragmatic atheism or sociological atheism. I personally think it’s just as delusional and dishonest for someone to say they know for certain there is no god of some sort as it is for people to say they know for certain that there is a god.

    I don’t usually identify myself as atheist anymore because of the mass misunderstandings of the term. I tend to identify myself as a humanist, or as a born again skeptic when I’m trying to be humorous. Both are more of a statement of my personal values than anything else, IMO.

  17. measure76 Says:

    If I remember Dawkin’s scale correctly, I would rate myself a 7.

    Sure there is no way of knowing if there is something in the universe that has some God-like attributes, But in practice, I’ve never seen a definition of God that has any actual evidence to back it up.

    When no two people on the planet can even agree on what God is, it’s a pretty good indication that God is entirely make-believe. Seriously, ask two people of the same religion a series of detailed questions of what the believe about God, and they will contradict each other.

    Is there a God outside the universe? Maybe, but that God would have little impact on our daily lives and is for all intents and purposes non-existent, unless we can find a way out of this universe ourselves… and only then we would have to deal with whatever that God happens to be, if it exists.

    Honestly, I am a skeptic first, and atheist second, but telling people I’m a skeptic doesn’t automatically tell them I don’t believe in God, where telling people I’m atheist does. I am skeptical of my atheism, but again, since I’ve turned atheist, I’ve seen no evidence to make me doubt it.

    Thank you for all your comments on my blog, INTJ. It’s good to have you around.

  18. measure76 Says:

    Hmm. looked at Dawkins scale again. make me a 6.9, in that it is not so much ‘belief’ that there is no God, but rather a examination of all the evidence I have seen. All of the evidence points to “There is no God”

    In fact, if there is a God, I would rather spend eternity in hell rather than thank him for life on this planet, which if he exists, he has done such a poor job of running that I would rather like to file a formal complaint in whatever celestial court he might be beholden to in an effort to bring him to justice for his crimes. heh.

  19. Virage Says:

    I have no idea how I ended up on this site, I was never Mormon and I’m not an atheist. Keep these points in mind.

    I noticed a slight flaw in your logic and felt compelled to post.

    “I’ve never seen a definition of God that has any actual evidence to back it up.”

    You’re speaking of course strictly physical evidence, I assume, which would make sense based on what you now believe. However you made this statement in the same post.

    “I am skeptical of my atheism, but again, since I’ve turned atheist, I’ve seen no evidence to make me doubt it.”

    I’ll point out the flaw.

    your first statement is a logical fallacy called a converse fallacy of accident. Your premise is that.. God does not exist because I have no evidence or data to prove it.

    However you cling to your new beliefs because you have seen no evidence to disprove it, which is arguably more dangerous. I for instance cannot prove that that there is no life on mars. But I also cannot say there IS life on mars just because I cannot prove that there isn’t. Do you see where I’m going with this?

    Apart from the whole logic thing, if you care, I would like to comment about your epiphany. I’ll just examine one of your arguments at this time because I don’t really want to commit a ton of energy to this. I’m just going to… play devil’s advocate for lack of a better expression at 2 AM.

    Here’s the part I’d like to comment on as of this writing it’s the last thing you posted.

    “In fact, if there is a God, I would rather spend eternity in hell rather than thank him for life on this planet, which if he exists, he has done such a poor job of running that I would rather like to file a formal complaint in whatever celestial court he might be beholden to in an effort to bring him to justice for his crimes.”

    This is a question of God’s “sovereignty” if you will. Does God cause my chest to rise and fall for each breath I take? A strict believer in sovereignty would say yes. This is not a biblical standpoint (I can’t speak for the “BoM” as I’ve never read it and have no interest in doing so)

    Did God place us on this earth so we could be his puppets? Does he literally control all of the circumstances and variables in my life? Is he painting a picture for my life that I am unable to deviate from?

    I would say absolutely not to all of these questions. I believe the world we live in today is a result of our own actions, not necessarily God’s hand of direction. Why do horrible tragedies and natural disasters happen?

    I believe that God set the stage and gave us a goal but then we wrote the majority of the “play”.

    Why is all this important?

    It comes down to two very very very important words. Free Will.

    I believe it is God’s desire to willfully of your own choice decide to believe in him. I also believe that anything that happens, good or bad, is a result of my actions or other people’s actions barring anything akin to natural disasters, sudden death etc.

    Not that the hand of God is miraculously making these things happen on a daily basis or that the devil is waiting for me around the corner to jump out at me with temptation. The world is what we have made it and that includes our obsession with our own origin regarding evolution or belief in a God.

    I’m running out of energy to type more as I already have a considerable wall of text so I’ll close with a statement and a quote.

    Belief in our origin will never be known for sure. Evolution has plenty of holes in it. Like how did life start in the first place? (I.E. how did we go from an atom to something that lives and consumes/reproduces) and of course how the fossil record has no transitionary (sp?) forms. Which supports variation in life but not actual evolution.

    Since we don’t KNOW anything we cannot say that we are right about anything or know for sure… anything. I submit to you that you converted to the religion of evolution not became an atheist. We have NO right to say that anyone else is wrong and should not try to convince people of your beliefs, but simply say where you stand and leave it at that. We can only do our best so I’ll leave you with this quote

    “Be the change you want to see in the world”
    Gandhi

  20. measure76 Says:

    Look, the point is, If there is a God, he is Evil, and I want nothing to do with him.

    That is all.

  21. UnMormonium Says:

    “God” isn’t dependent on our definitions of him.
    There may be a “God” (one or more) somewhere in the universe, as yet unfound, as yet not described correctly. People are not just good and bad, some are neutral. Some deists believe in a sort of neutral God. There is no requirement that any “God” have super powers beyond creation, and not necessarily (perhaps?) even that power. But I think that the cause of the material universe was a powerful energy, wielded by god, that produced both physical matter and metaphysical substance. I’m not describing any of this (well, okay, physical matter I could take a stab at). I’m just saying it seems obvious that it exists. The problem isn’t that people claim something exists that does not exist. The problem is that we do not know the true attributes of metaphysical substance, we don’t know (perhaps cannot comprehend) the true characteristics of God (gods), and don’t really know all that much about the physical universe either, once you think about it.

    • measure76 Says:

      Short version: We just don’t know.

      Ok, I can take that, but it also means that no God humans have ever described exists.

      In fact, it only confirms that no evidence for God has ever been found.

      To someone like me, who believes in No God, your argument provides no rationale for beginning to believe.

      I’ll keep my hard-line atheism for now.

  22. chanson Says:

    Great story!

    So many Mormon exit stories follow exactly this same pattern: holding on to belief as the doubt increases, then in a moment realizing that there’s one explanation that makes it all make sense!

    My exit story is quite similar. I wrote it in three parts, linked from here.

  23. chanson Says:

    As a follow-up bonus, here’s how I became an atheist.

    Plus, I completely relate to your story here:

    At first I felt free. Liberated.

    A lot of people feel devastated at the realization, others feel liberated. I think in a lot of ways it depends on how well you fit in the Mormon mold and the Mormon lifestyle. I fell into the latter camp. This tale describes that feeling of liberation. :D

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